Plato's dialogue "Timaeus" begins with a scene where Socrates counts the people who have gathered. The previous day, Timaeus and his companions were entertained as guests, and now they are trying to reciprocate by entertaining Socrates in words.

However, before moving on to a new story, we must first confirm the dialogue from the previous day. Socrates reviews each aspect of the ideal state that he described. The roles and education of the guardians, the communal life without private property, the equality of men and women in their duties, and the system concerning family and children – these political theories serve as a foundation for Plato's grand cosmology in Timaeus.

Original Text, Sources, and Usage Conditions

• Original text: Plato, Timaeus, in Platonis Opera, Tomus IV, ed. John Burnet (Oxford, 1902).
• Source text: The Greek text from the Burnet edition is available on the Perseus Catalog "Timaeus, Burnet, 1902", and it has been compared with the images of the Burnet edition.
• Usage conditions: The Greek text data from Perseus is provided under CC BY-SA 4.0. The Burnet edition is a historical edited version whose protection period has expired.

Dialogue Text

Socrates: One, two, three... By the way, dear Timaios, where is the fourth person? Yesterday, he was a guest at the banquet, and today, he was supposed to be on the host side.

Timaios: I have been afflicted by some illness, Socrates. Otherwise, I would not be the one to absent myself from such a gathering.

Socrates: Then, you and these two people will take on the responsibility of covering for those who are absent.

Thymaios: Of course. We will not fail in anything, to the best of our ability. Yesterday, we received hospitality from you that is fitting for a guest, so if those of us who remain do not gladly reciprocate your kindness, it would not be right.

Socrates: Then, do you remember what I ordered you to talk about?

Timaios: I remember some things. There are things I don't remember, and since you are here, please remind me. No, rather, if it is not too much trouble, could you please review everything from the beginning again, briefly? That way, they will be more firmly fixed in our memories.

Socrates: Yes, let us. Yesterday, the main points of what I said about the ideal form of government were that I was discussing what kind of country would be best, and what kind of people it should consist of.

Timaeus: Yes, Socrates. What you have said is very much in accordance with our thoughts.

Socrates: Then, did you not separate the farmers and all other craftsmen of that country from those who were to stand at the forefront in battle?

Thaimios: Yes.

Socrates, and to each person,

Socrates (Continued) He said that for those who must fight, they should be given only one job suited to their nature, and one skill per person. And above all else, these people must be the guardians of the state, so that when someone comes to harm it, whether from outside or inside, they can defend it.

Socrates (Continued): "Since those who govern us are, in essence, our own people, we should approach judging them with gentleness, while facing enemies encountered on the battlefield with severity."

Thaimios: That is completely correct.

Socrates: I believe we have discussed that the true nature of a guardian's soul must be extraordinarily proud and, at the same time, fond of knowledge. This is so that it can behave correctly and gently, as well as strictly, towards both friends and enemies.

Thaimios: Yes.

Socrates: Then, regarding education, did you not say that individuals should be raised through physical training, music and literature, and all the subjects appropriate for guardians?

Thaimios: Yes, that is absolutely correct.

Socrates also said that those who are raised in this way should not consider gold, silver, or any other possessions as their own. Rather, they should act as protectors for the people they protect and receive compensation for their protection. This amount should be sufficient for a moderate person, and it should be used collectively, with them living together, always being mindful of cultivating virtue, and being freed from other work.

Timaios: That, too, was said in that way.

Socrates: He also touched upon women. He recognized that women possessed the same qualities as men, and argued that they should share all responsibilities with men, both in war and in other aspects of life.

Timaios: That, too, was said in that way.

Socrates: Then, what about having children? This story is memorable because it's unusual. Marriage and children should be common property for everyone, and no one should know privately which child belongs to whom.

Socrates (Continued). On the other hand, everyone considered each other to be part of the same family, and those within an appropriate age range were regarded as siblings, while older generations were seen as parents or grandparents, and younger generations as children or grandchildren.

Thaimios: Yes. As you said, this is also something that is easy to remember.

Socrates: And from birth, in order for the nature of each individual to become as good as possible, rulers of both men and women should carefully consider marriage pairings.

Socrates (Continued) Do you remember that I spoke of the need to secretly manipulate a certain kind of lottery, so that those who are inferior and those who are superior would be paired with opponents of similar qualities, and also, in order to prevent animosity from arising between them, it must appear as if the pairings were due to chance.

Timaios. I remember.

Socrates: And he spoke of how the children of those who are excellent must be raised, but the children of those who are inferior should secretly be transferred to a class of citizens who are not guardians. While the children grow up, they must always be observed, and those who are suitable should be returned to the upper class, while those who are unsuitable should be moved back to where the others were originally placed.

Thymios: That is correct.

Socrates: Then, in the sense of retracing the main points again, as we did yesterday, have we already said everything? Or, dear Timaios, are there still things that we are seeking to understand?

Timaeus: No, not at all. Socrates, everything you mentioned was exactly as I described it.